Idaho Tiger muskie stocking program update

[Fish-N-Fool]

Here is an email I send to the Idaho Fish & Game about their lack of restocking any of the lakes with Tiger Muskies and their response to that email.

Dear Idaho Fish and Game,
I'd like to know why you have quit stocking Tiger Muskies in all parts of Idaho, but mainly in the Idaho Panhandle where I live and fish. There has been (according to your records), no Tigers stocked at all since 2007, that seem to me like a very long time. The lakes that had been stocked don't seem to have many if any in them anymore. I have been trying on and off to catch a Muskie out of Freeman, Blue, and Hauser lakes for the past 5 years with little to no success. The closest I came was 3 years ago now, at Blue lake when a nice fish bit off my swimbait while I was Bass fishing, as I was using 12LB. mono line at the time. I'm not real sure if it was a Pike or Muskie, as I have heard there are some of both in that lake. It was about 3 feet long and looked chrome on the side, so I believe it was a Tiger Muskie. I have tried that lake alot since then with proper Muskie gear and have not seen a single fish, so I decided to fishing other areas. My first trip to fish for Muskies in Washington state was at Newman lake. I had 3 strikes, 2 at the side of the boat, and landed this nice 36 1/2 " beauty.


That is more action in one day then I have had in the past 5 years of on and off fishing for Muskies in Idaho!!!!!!!!!!!!

SO, Why should I have to go out of state to find a good Muskie fishing lake????? I would hope you will take a look at your stocking program for 2012 and include the funds to put Tigers back into the Idaho panhandle waters.

I joined the Mountain Muskies club last year just to find some good lakes for Muskie fishing. They fish tournaments in Washington waters and I sure they would love to be able to hold a tournament in Idaho waters, but none of the Lakes are large enough and have enough fish for a successful tournament.

A few lakes that I think would be ideal for Tigers that you could add to the stocking program are either Spirit or Cocolalla Lakes for larger bodies of water and Gamble lake for a smaller lake, but stocking any fish in any of the waters would be good, as we need to start growing some bigger fish. It takes time to get a catchable size Muskie from the 6" fish that are stocked. Also the numbers that are stocked in each lake seem a little low to me. Like in Freeman lake you only stocked 50 fish? You would have to figure that two thirds of them got eaten by a bass or another Esox in the first month or so, maybe 8 to 12 of those fish would survive to see their 2nd birthday. I would think that for a lake the size of Freeman or Blue lakes that 150 fish stocked would be a better number or stock a little larger fish that has a better chance of making past the first year. Lakes the size of Chocolala and Spirit lakes I think that number would be more like 1000 to 1500 fish. Please let me know what your plans are about the future of Tiger Muskie fishing in the Idaho Panhandle.
Tnx Rick Lawrence


Thanks for your comments and interest in tiger muskies. We certainly do recognize that they have provided an important and popular sport fishery in area lakes. Unfortunately, it has been exceedingly difficult to find a disease-free source. Most tiger musky production facilities are in the Midwest, and concerns about diseases that we don’t have in Idaho have limited potential sources. Tom Frew, our resident hatchery coordinator has been continuing to work with Midwestern states on identifying stocks that have been tested disease-free for 3 consecutive years, and I believe we’re getting closer to coming up with some potential sources. I’ve copied Tom so he can speak directly to that.



As for what waters we’d stock, at this point we’re not considering expanding the program to new waters. One thing we’ve noticed is a pronounced decline in perch populations where we’ve stocked tiger muskies. While we don’t have conclusive evidence that it’s because of the tiger muskies, I’d be unwilling to jeopardize the very popular perch fishery in Cocolalla. Hopefully we can get some more fish in the near future and at least get the populations back up in the lakes that we have designated for tiger muskies.



Again, thanks for your interest,



Jim Fredericks
Regional Fishery Manager, Panhandle Region
Idaho Department of Fish and Game
2885 W. Kathleen Ave.
Coeur d'Alene ID 83815
(208) 769-1414
jim.fredericks@idfg.idaho.gov

[Lucius]

That is good to know that they are trying. Thanks for the update fish n fool.

[muskyhunter]

Nice job Rick. If you talk to those guys again see if they'd be interested in the Utah tigers. They now have rearing ponds for northerns and true muskies to produce their own tigers. I threw the idea at Mr. Bolding here in Washington. We will see what happens. I think maybe some of the fish from the Minnesota Musky Farm might (the breeders) are sick. The bad tails, fins and deformities. Maybe switching to another egg source might have better results in the sexiness of the tigers here. Look at some of their fish. Big, fat and beautifully marked. Their fins and tails are outstanding. So if you have a source through the Dept of Fish & Game in Idaho throw that at them?
Hauser has some big tigers in it. Not many but piggies. See ya Rick. Todd

[Fish-N-Fool]

Todd,
If you have contact info for who is supplying the Utah Tigers I would be happy to pass it along. Is that where Washington state gets their Tigers from?

[muskyhunter]

Nope. Washington get their eggs from the Minnesota Musky Farm.. Look online for the Utah info. I will look in my past emails from them. And see if I can find the contact. I'm sure the Idaho F & G know about the Utah musky programs. I contacted them awhile back about some spear fishing of muskies in Utah. Todd

[Mark K]

Good info Rick. I thought they may have just stopped due to budget issues.Nice to know they're still working on it. I wonder why they wouldn't just get them from the same supplier as Washington though. Or maybe Washington could raise extra every year and sell extras to Idaho to help WDFW's budget... I think this has been done in the past but I think it was just extra fish. Good Idea about contacting Utah Todd. I wish both Idaho and Washington could go Utah's route and produce their own fish.

[Lucius]

I presented the info about Utah to Jim the very night I saw this post and this is what he sent me back:

"....our state hatchery coordinator who said that, evidently Utah had very high mortality last year, so they’re a ways off of having surplus. At least they’re working on it. we’ve also go requests in with some outfits in Nebraska evidently, so we’re working on it. "

This is good news and hopefully it will work out. I also have some info about pike that I will post on the pike discussion.

[bl93]

I am new to the forum, and not good at the computer so bare with me guys. I am born and raised in sandpoint and hunting and fishing are my life. I saw this post from fishnfools and had to join and let you guys know what i had as a reply. about 2 weeks before i seen this post from fishnfools i also emailed idaho fish and game and, and i'm not trying to stir things up, but i am totally frustrated with them. i recieved a totally different answer. i am gonna post the back and forth emails i had with them.. i believe you will see why i am frustrated..

me:
My question is with the future plans for the state to have tiger muskie planted in area lakes. Myself as well as others i have spoke with believe it has been very successful so far and are hoping it will continue. Funding is an issue as well as it is with everything else. Has idf&g thought of having a tiger muskie permit for an angler to keep one similar to a steelhead permit? This could help with the funding of the fish so they can continue their role in reducing some fish numbers as well as another great gamefish for idahoans to fish for! Being hybrid if planting does not continue they will soon be a thing of the past!

reply:
I agree tiger muskie are fun to catch. However, the problem with tiger muskie is, they eat everything that moves. We only stock them in mountain lakes that are over-populated with brook trout. They are the only predatory fish we’ve found that will “crash” a brook trout population in a mountain lake environment. In all cases, the tiger muskies succumb to starvation or are caught by anglers and removed. The amount of time they persist is dependent on the amount of food – so, we typically stock very small numbers (less than 50) in a lake.

Dave Parrish
Idaho Dept. of Fish and Game
Resident Fishery Program Coordinator

[bl93]

here is the rest:
me: Thanks for the reply. So does this mean blue,Sheppard,Dawson,and Hauser are all done having them stocked?
reply: We will go back in and sample fish populations in those lakes in 2012. If the balance of fish species and size is near our management objectives, then we won’t stock anymore tiger muskies. If we still are seeing an over-population of brook trout etc. we may try tiger muskie one more time.
As you are aware, tiger muskie are aggressive and easy to catch. We’ve had some lakes were anglers catch and keep the tiger muskie before they’ve had a chance to influence the target fish species. In this case, we’ve stocked tigers multiple times.
Dave Parrish
me: This is why so many people are frustrated with the communication between idaho fish and game and the public. This makes me question how well you know our local fishery. First of all they are nit an "easy" fish to catch. There are anglers that put in hours and hours to try and catch one, that i know first hand. Also washington has a tiger musky chapter of people that dedicate a lot of time and money to these fish. I have been on their forums and it takes a lot of dedication to catch them. Also washington has recognized that there is a desire for the fish from sportsman statewide and work with them to keep a population! Also might i add that the lakes i mentioned do not even have brook trout populations in them. I am very disappointed in your ability to give me a straight answer. Remember you are suppose to work for idahoans!

[bl93]

The last reply!!!!!

I appreciate your opinions and views, but I can tell you that from a fish management perspective, tiger muskie are not that difficult to catch. They are a top-tier predator in the fish world. To achieve this status, they are aggressive and voracious eaters. If you know the type of habitat they utilize in a body of water, anglers are very effective at harvesting them with lures – especially in the spring.

As I previously stated, a few tigers have the ability to make a large difference in the composition of a fish community. You’re right – we do use tiger muskie to control fish species other than brook trout. I can tell you from living at Sandpoint many years ago that some of the lakes you listed do/did have brook trout populations. Yes, lakes like Shepard also have a host of introduced species (bass, bluegill, crappie, bullhead, etc.). Tigers are used to keep these fish populations from stunting.

If you would like to discuss further, please give me a call at 208-287-2773.

[bl93]

My first frustration is how he said they are EASY to catch, my other frustration is he started out by saying they only stock them where there are brook trout problems! not true. Fishnfools can you help me out on this one, sounds like you have fished a lot of the same lakes i do. I fished blue, hauser, shepard, and freeman all last summer didn't catch any muskie and i have never seen a brook trout in these lakes. The other point is if anglers are removing them to soon then put a 50 inch size limit on them like wa.

p.s. sorry to ramble on about the subject, i am just really concerned about these fisheries...

[Fish-N-Fool]

My first frustration is how he said they are EASY to catch, my other frustration is he started out by saying they only stock them where there are brook trout problems! not true. Fishnfools can you help me out on this one, sounds like you have fished a lot of the same lakes i do. I fished blue, hauser, shepard, and freeman all last summer didn't catch any muskie and i have never seen a brook trout in these lakes. The other point is if anglers are removing them to soon then put a 50 inch size limit on them like wa.

p.s. sorry to ramble on about the subject, i am just really concerned about these fisheries...

It sounds to me like this guy has no clue what he is talking about. I know for a fact they are not EZ to catch, I put in at least 150 to 200 hours of hard fishing in Idaho for them with no real success, other then the one in Blue that bit me off.
I do not fish for trout so I don't know what lakes have them in them or not. The only time I catch trout is when they eat one of my Bass or Pike Lures. I would send this info to Jim Fredericks and ask him why the stories don't match.

[bl93]

@fishnfool. Thats a good idea, thank you for the reply. I thought it was just me thinking he didn't know what he was talking about.lol
I was kinda dumb struck at first, i have been fishing since i was old enough to walk, saltwater, freshwater, alaska, idaho,etc..
I am don't claim to be an expert by any means whatsoever, but last summer i set out to "catch a tiger" in idaho and put in a lot of hours to not catch one, then to have him tell me "they are easy to catch".

Well anyway, on a positive note it's getting that time of year, it will be here soon!!!!!!!!

[Lucius]

Also Freddricks is the regional fishieres manager as dave is a fish program coordinator. Sounds like Dave is a greenhorn out of college that just got done finishing his marine biology degree which all they study is standard biology and not any specific species. With the "general" degree they might feel they have the knowledge to make them feel confident that they can make an educated guess and be right most of the time. His comment of "aggressive" over and over again tells me that he is going off something he read in a book and if they are agressive then they are easy!!!! Heck I am getting confused just trying to explain where I think he gets his logic from. I guess you can't explain crazy talk

[YJ Guide Service]

Sounds familiar lol......