Nymphing vs. swinging

[natetreat]

There are strong opinions out there and I get a kick out of it. Discuss.

[Amx]

Define them.

I never heard of 'swinging'.

Nymphing is just using nymph imitations.

Thanks.

[RiverChromeGS]

Indicator fishing vs straight fly and line, indicator is more like float fishing than fly fishing, but who cares if its effective. Purists are annoying as hell

[Amx]

Nymphin the way it's supposed to be done is a sinking line, sometimes, and a sinking fly/streamer/nymph so it gets to the bottom. Don't usually need any shot. What's the bead for? Never heard of using a bead.

[oneshot]

Purists are annoying as hell

I am of this opinion..

there is a time and place for everything. while I am also brand new to the fly i have done both and i think some times you toss the whole bag at them and that includes techniques as well.. i don't care if you're tossing cotton balls from kmart, spray painted pink attached to a golf club for a rod.. you're fishing..

[RiverChromeGS]

Purists are annoying as hell

I am of this opinion..

there is a time and place for everything. while I am also brand new to the fly i have done both and i think some times you toss the whole bag at them and that includes techniques as well.. i don't care if you're tossing cotton balls from kmart, spray painted pink attached to a golf club for a rod.. you're fishing..

Love it. Thats the way it should be. Those fly fisherman giving gear guys mean looks is stupid. Just enjoy fishing for whatever suits you best and stop with the purist BS. I can find just as many things to hate on fly guys as they can on gear guys. Do what makes ya happy and most of all mind your own business

[afk]

Nate, must you stir the pot! Purists are purists and will always have an opinion. Myself, I fish whenever I can, whenever I can, for whatever is biting with whatever is working. I guess that I'm with oneshot. Fishin'

[natetreat]

Nate, must you stir the pot! Purists are purists and will always have an opinion. Myself, I fish whenever I can, whenever I can, for whatever is biting with whatever is working. I guess that I'm with oneshot. Fishin'

It came up in another thread, it needed to have its own. I don't understand purists. A nymph is the life stage of a fly, before it turns into a fly. Swinging a big intruder is imitating a fish? A mouse? Certainly not a fly I don't understand the "purist" perspective I guess, looking for a little objective explanation. I catch a lot of fish on a skagit sink tip, nymphing with or without an indicator, dead drifting, trolling woolly buggers you name it. I enjoy a good snap t as much as I can take pride in the perfectly timed stack mend. Is a painted lead eye on an intruder any different than a split shot above two beaded nymphs? Or is it the difference between a $30 sink tip and an ostrich hackle that makes it truly fly fishing. From an objective perspective, it's a lot more difficult to get the perfect drift than casting down stream, maybe mending once and waiting for it to fish out, and repeat. Take a little bit of practice to even get an indicator out where you want it, let alone get a straight drift. I can understand that it's parallel to bobber/drift/hardware fishing in rivers with gear, you'll catch more fish drift fishing, but when they hit a spinner they hit it hard.

Stirring the pot, I'm sure if I asked these questions on washingtonflyfishing they'd ban my IP but hey? I don't get it.

[rcthepirate]

Nymphing is certainly a legitimate form of fly fishing (especially for trout in streams). As a matter of fact, in my own experience, nymphing seems to be the most popular (fly-fishing) method of catching trout in moving water and furthermore it is consistently more productive than fishing dries or streamers. Therefore, I don't really see why it would be considered less legitimate when we apply the method to steelhead fishing. Just because I prefer drift fishing over float fishing doesn't mean I knock on the guys who fish a bobber and jig all the time.

[Steelheadin360]

Nymphing is fly fishing, most purist just get their panties in a wad because you are catching more fish then them.Its taking a natrual looking insect stage and presenting it in a natrual way, which is what fly fishing is all about isnt it? I love nymphing on the north fork when all of the yuppies are up there. "WHAT ARE YOU DOING!! THATS NOT FLY FISHING!!!" as a 10 pound summer run has my 8wt doubled over

and if using an indacator and a little bit of wieght isnt fly fishing i dont want to see"purists" using wieghted flys. If you got on a casting bubble and an 1/8 oz jig i could see the problem, but a little stoneback and a small chunk of foam? really?

[Dan Boone]

I don't understand purist's obsessions either. I also think fly and a bubble with a spinning rod should be legal for fly fishing only waters.

[afk]

Nate, you contribute far more to this site than many. Please don't get me wrong. It's definitely a good topic. I pretty much put my hornet nest poking stick away a few years ago. As for the possibility of getting banned from a site for asking such a question? That alone says a lot about the intolerance of those of that site. For me the "The tug is the drug". And when that drug is not available I come to this site!!

[Bodofish]

In my opinion, its real simple. I'll only state it once and leave the rest to the others. We seem to be lumping, nymphing with flossing so the way it goes is this. Both are legal so I'm going to say if you have a problem with either, it's a moral issue. Moral issues are not settled in court, they are personal issues. I will suggest that there is nothing anyone can do about a moral issue, the only place they get sorted out is at the pearly gates. There is no stoning of adulterers anymore. Anyone that has a problem with either can do one of two things; shut up and live with it or enact a change in the law. Belly aching about does no one any good.

[Bodofish]

I don't lump nymphing with flossing as the fish certainly takes the bead, Fly, or offering WILLINGLY. Flossing is another deal and its not legal if u get down to it. Also worth note is on certain Oregon rivers Fly only is stated as no indicators, shot, or tips in summer. This serves to preserve that section as a classic Fly section. Should all rivers be like this, not in my opinion.

Don't really care what OR does unless I'm fishing there and it's only to be legal. I'd like to take this time to point out that "Snagging" is illegal, not using a long leader or "flossing" as some call it (it's still not a term used in the regs). The devil is in the details, you have to prove intent in either case. Good luck proving it, you can't and one else would be able to either. End of story, don't like it change the law.
So every guide on the Yak is fishing immorally? Everyone of them nymphs and if they aren't straight up nymphing they've got a dropper off a big hopper. Again, moral issues are your own.
So now classic fly fishing is with a dry fly only? What a load....... Who ever came up with that needs to get a job.

[natetreat]

The fish has to willingly take the bait, hence flossing is illegal by our laws. Proving that you're flossing in court mmeans you have to prove intent, which is impossible.

So classic fly fishing you use a floating line, a leader and a fly? How does that work? And that's another thing like Bodo said, every guide fishing the eastside is going to fly fishermen's hell because that's what they do 80% of the time? It takes all types, I think that when you put your own preferences on a pedestal and start calling folks who do something different "snaggers" "wannabes" "posers" you do yourself and the sport a disservice. That's really what I was trying to illustrate here. People get set up on their fishing camps and say "My boat is white! I'm better than your black dinghy!" When it's just a preference. All of these rules are arbitrary and self inflicted. When you go so far as to call all of those folks that aren't swinging big bugs names, and say that it's not fly fishing unless you're doing it MY way, than you're just being a douche.

Let's be honest and take a second to think about steelhead and what they eat - when they're smolts they'll eat flies from the surface like a trout about 10% of the time on the westside. But more often than that, they're going to eat the bugs that are in the water, flesh from their dead relatives, eggs from the run that is in there currently. In the salt, they're going to eat shrimps, krills, and then fish. 90% of the things that they naturally eat aren't flies! When they come back, they are territorial, getting ready to spawn and not really looking for dinner. They pick up the odd bit of flesh or roe that's floating downstream. They'll snap and the unwise baby fish or minnow that comes near them. Big streamers are the equivalent to an angry spinner or spoon, an egg or flesh pattern is the odd bit of nasty that they occasionally instinctively swipe at.

None of which are imitating FLIES.

Yes, nymphing with an indicator is the same thing as fishing with a bobber and a jig. Swinging a big streamer or intruder is the same exact thing as throwing a spinner, spoon or dick nite. The only way you're going to see me father in law fishing is with an egg loop on a floating fly line with a slinky at the tip and eggs in the loop. Same as a bobber and eggs. And yes, it's ten time easier to floss a fish with a fly line than it is with a gear rod. Think about it, the average fly leader is 7-10 feet long! You're swinging it through where the fish are sitting at face level, 8 feet of leader, two feet of tippet, and a hook at the end. Do the math.

If you're going to say the only way you're fly fishing is ______, it better be a dry fly on the surface. And fishing dried for steelhead is going to get you maybe one or two fish a year. There are much more constructive things to do with our time than bicker about who's fishing properly. I started this thread because of a comment in another thread where there was a beginning fly fishermen who wanted to know some tips on catching fish, and was immediately thrust into the age old fly fishermen superiority complex. I started as a gear fishermen, so I never got it. But as a gear fishermen, I never went over to the "fly" side because it seemed stupid to me, a bunch of grouchy elitist guys bickering about petty techniques, dropping a G on a rod, another on a reel and spending more time swapping spools than with their bait in the water. It shouldn't be like that. Fly fishing is a helluvalot of fun, and it's just as easy as an other type of fishing. When beginners are subjected to this type of bigotry as soon as they show any interest, than they get turned off, get intimidated and go home. That's my two cents. I catch a lot of fish, and spend my time showing others how to do the same. No judgements, not pressure. It's about being outside with the water and the fish, nothing more.

[Bodofish]

Very good!!!

[RiverChromeGS]

For some, method is as important as being successful. I personally would take one fish swinging to ten any other way.

hehe

[Bodofish]

Flossing is a term for those who use a long leader drift fishing. With a leader somewhere between 18 inches and 10 feet someone decided that it was "flossing" or snagging fish by dragging the leader through the gaping maw of the fish sitting in the current and hooking them on the outside of the mouth. Now to prove it's illegal one would have to prove the fishermans intent to snag the fish. The Regs clearly state that hooking a fish from the edge of the gill plate forward is a good hook, so there again if you hook the fish in the head how are you going to prove intent to snag when you can hook the fish anywhere on the head and have it legal. This is why I have to say it's a moral issue. Kind of like a purist looking down on those who use an indicator. Personally there's really nothing like having that fly ripped from the surface but sometime they just prefer to eat the tender little nymphs.....

[bigskyx]

Flossing is a term for those who use a long leader drift fishing. With a leader somewhere between 18 inches and 10 feet someone decided that it was "flossing" or snagging fish by dragging the leader through the gaping maw of the fish sitting in the current and hooking them on the outside of the mouth. Now to prove it's illegal one would have to prove the fishermans intent to snag the fish. The Regs clearly state that hooking a fish from the edge of the gill plate forward is a good hook, so there again if you hook the fish in the head how are you going to prove intent to snag when you can hook the fish anywhere on the head and have it legal. This is why I have to say it's a moral issue. Kind of like a purist looking down on those who use an indicator. Personally there's really nothing like having that fly ripped from the surface but sometime they just prefer to eat the tender little nymphs.....

Ahhh, creative snagging. I try to stay away from crowds and leave that sort of thing to the law. Thanks for the explanation.

[mallard83]

My opinion is that i swing, and sure i think others should do it that way. I think swinging is cooler but that is just me. I have always been of the opinion u should do what u want.

I agree with your statement 100%, but for some reason my wife is not on the same page.