Question for smoked Pink salmon

[Bodofish]

I find it funny how people think a dry brine will not penetrate the fish??? for those who have not used a dry brine....it is only a dry brine for maybe the first half hour and then your fish is completely covered with liquid. Sounds like the people against dry brine have not used a dry brine.

Sorry done it commercially and at home and it's still not a brine, a brine is a solution of salt and water, period. There is no argument only ignorance. It's what it is, a rub. It will also take several days to penetrate the meat completely. Lox is made by salting the fish for only a couple days and the salt never penetrates the meat completely until several days after the salt is rinsed from the fillets. You can actually taste the difference between the cut side and the skin side, it's the only way to tell when the fish is done and ready for the smoker or freezer.

[Bodofish]

PS: Sodium Nitrate is a color enhancer or preserver as well as flavor. Not enough of it in your rub to kill anything.

I'm sure you have much more experience than I do, and I'm not trying to start a pissing match, but I can share this with you...my career is in chemical sales across all industries, food obviously being one of them. Morton is one of my direct suppliers and I've spoken with my rep about their sugar cure product. He said it is specifically formulated for curing meats such as ham, fish, game...pretty much meat in general. He said between the salt content, and the sodium nitrate, and PROPER PREPARATION AND STORAGE (I totally agree that's a huge part of the equation), the cure will inhibit bacteria growth in a sealed and sterilized package. Which is why I do the extra step of placing the sealed packs in the oven at 170 for an extra 30-45 minutes. Then it's directly to the fridge if it's going to be eaten fairly soon, or the chest freezer for long term storage.

No argument from me but in that quantity or concentration I'm sure the plain old salt is doing more to kill the bacteria. It's generally added to any seafood to enhance the color of the meat (or roe). I've also done quite a bit of fish in retort pouches which is in essence what you are doing. I can't say I've ever done it in an oven but I have in a steam pressure vessel. Good Stuff! You especially want to be careful doing that sort of canning as the fish is not acid at all and rather easy to get some botulism going. None the less I like it! Where are you getting the bags from? Maybe microwave to kill everything.

[mizm05]

I just get the bags from the interwebz from wherever I can find them the cheapest.

[Bodofish]

I just get the bags from the interwebz from wherever I can find them the cheapest.

Are they the mylar bags?

[mizm05]

Nylon

[Bodofish]

Are they specifically for vac packing?

[mizm05]

Si senor

[goodtimesfishing]

I find it funny how people think a dry brine will not penetrate the fish??? for those who have not used a dry brine....it is only a dry brine for maybe the first half hour and then your fish is completely covered with liquid. Sounds like the people against dry brine have not used a dry brine.

Sorry done it commercially and at home and it's still not a brine, a brine is a solution of salt and water, period. There is no argument only ignorance. It's what it is, a rub. It will also take several days to penetrate the meat completely. Lox is made by salting the fish for only a couple days and the salt never penetrates the meat completely until several days after the salt is rinsed from the fillets. You can actually taste the difference between the cut side and the skin side, it's the only way to tell when the fish is done and ready for the smoker or freezer.

I just want to make sure I am hearing this correctly, so what you are saying is that if the salt and sugar are mixed with water from your tap(faucet or bottled water) then it is a brine. But if you use a dry mix of salt and sugar that when added to the fish turns the whole container into liquid within usually half hour.......remember now, at this point the fillets are completely submerged in liquid. Explain why this would take "SEVERAL DAYS" vs hours if mixed with the water from your tap???? When using a dry brine, it is not like using a rub to flavor your steak before putting it on the grill. You use much more of the dry mix.....it pulls the moisture out of the fish creating a now wet brine. If you left it for days as you say, it would be LEATHER!
Again, I don't think you have tried/used a dry brine......might have seasoned a fillet before bbq but that is NOT curing with a dry brine.

[Bodofish]

No it's not the same. The dry rub (Salt and Sugar) pulls water from the fillets where as a brine (water and salt) pushes water and salt into the fillets. Osmosis is the mechanism by which the water and salt is forced in because the brine is a higher concentration of salt than the meat itself. Two mediums will always try to reach an equilibrium. So no matter how much water the rub pulls from the fillets, it will not put it back in. Hence the salt is only on the outer layer of the fillet, I suspect this is why most of the dry recipes have you cut the fish into small pieces and make slashes in the meat (increasing surface area). Eventually it will equalize throughout the fillet but it will take several days.

Dry salting in a commercial process is only done for a very specific effect. As a general rule brining is faster for adding spice and moisture to the fillets because it permeates the meat so much better do to osmosis.

Don't get me wrong, If you like the way a dry rub turns out, it's awesome, I make no judgment on anyone's preferred recipe. I am only explaining how the different techniques work and the outcome of each.

[natetreat]

No it's not the same. The dry rub (Salt and Sugar) pulls water from the fillets where as a brine (water and salt) pushes water and salt into the fillets. Osmosis is the mechanism by which the water and salt is forced in because the brine is a higher concentration of salt than the meat itself. Two mediums will always try to reach an equilibrium. So no matter how much water the rub pulls from the fillets, it will not put it back in. Hence the salt is only on the outer layer of the fillet, I suspect this is why most of the dry recipes have you cut the fish into small pieces and make slashes in the meat (increasing surface area). Eventually it will equalize throughout the fillet but it will take several days.

Dry salting in a commercial process is only done for a very specific effect. As a general rule brining is faster for adding spice and moisture to the fillets because it permeates the meat so much better do to osmosis.

Don't get me wrong, If you like the way a dry rub turns out, it's awesome, I make no judgment on anyone's preferred recipe. I am only explaining how the different techniques work and the outcome of each.

that's interesting. Do most commercial operations use a brine rather than a dry rub? I "brine" my fish in the dry brine for 2-3 days for humpies, and it still doesn't penetrate all the way through except for with the super thin tail pieces. I reeally like the crust with a tasty center the way it turns out.

I haven't found a salt/water technique that I like as much yet, I'd like to though to get a moister fish to compare with mine. The fish that I just pulled out this morning are my best work yet! Man are they good.

[Bodofish]

Standard brine is 1/4 c of like pickleing salt (non-iodized, any) the just coarser than table salt per qt of water and brine for 8 to 12 hours. In the brine go to town with as much sugar, molasses, spices what every flavor suites. For spices, it's best to bring them to a boil in the water before making the brine to release essential oils.

And yes, we always used a brine solution for any hot smoked fish or meat, just to keep it moist. It does take longer, sometimes I leave the brined fish in the fridge for a couple days, then I like to sprinkle raw sugar on them just before smoking.

[Rob w]

the quality of fish you pull out of the smoker, is not better than what you put in. the old adage, well, its good enough to smoke", is bull. if you would not eat it fresh, its a waste of time to smoke it. i rinse my fish well, after brining. i put em on the racks of my big chief, and place a small fan near em, just so air circulates. not a typhoon. lol. the longer you dry em, the better. perfect is overnight. the better the pelicle, the better the flesh will absorb the smoke. (3 pans). my last was in about 6 hours. but it was warm out. and dont yank it out when its done. unplug the thing, and come back in a couple hours. then in the house and let sit for an hour. then off the racks. do not close the bag, if you put em in bags. they need to release the sweat. in near 40 years of smoking fish, i have not been THAT anal, and i havent got sick yet. salt keeps it good. i brine em in the fridge usually, but if its not real hot, its in the garage. in a cooler, with a bit of ice to keep it nice. i only smoked two pinks. i canned 4 cases. ive found canning is the best way to use em. i love to smoke kings. puget sound silvers smoke up terrible, in my opinion. the coasts coho, are oilier, and better smokers. the best smokers, are bright fish. kings can be good colored up a bit. most are in tidewater. but its looks. the meat is unchanged, in most cases.