seals and fish

[Onmygame]

Matt - the info you posted yesterday was already posted to this thread the day before..by some folks who didn't feel the need to be snarky about it.

Not sure why anyone even would on this forum....maybe you could explain.....

The MMPA of 1972 bans the harassment of marine mammals - plain and simple, and that there are a myriad of recently added caveats - such as - stating a person must be actively fishing, that specific mammals can only be deterred to avoid damage to gear or catch, and that the methods must conform to various local laws in place by various local enforcement agencies - it leaves MUCH to interpretation. In fact, when it comes to legal fireworks in this state - am not sure anyone could use much more than a sparkler?

One thing is for certain however - the MPAA of 1972 banning harassment is the RULE, and the amended provisions are the EXCEPTION.

Just like it is illegal to shoot a bear out of season or without the proper license,....you can however shoot a bear at any time if your life is threatened by it.

Again - rule / exception, and to dismiss the rule in general because of the exception doesn't hold water.

I'm the FIRST to admit I'm wrong when I am - it happens from time to time - but I see nothing from NOAA that is in conflict with my initial post - - which simply stated that there are laws against harassing marine mammals, and that anyone who does so is subject to a certain amount of grief if caught.

Have yourself a good day.

OnMyGame

[treefisher]

seals eat fish, that is what they do, eat fish, nature tells them to eat fish, so they do, eat fish.




Now, WE eat too, so WE should just shoot the seals. But then crabs like to eat also, so we should let the crabs eat the seals.


Leaves that many more fish for US. And the crabs are very happy.


(same with the sea lions...)

and then we eat the fat an happy crabs

[Amx]

seals eat fish, that is what they do, eat fish, nature tells them to eat fish, so they do, eat fish.




Now, WE eat too, so WE should just shoot the seals. But then crabs like to eat also, so we should let the crabs eat the seals.


Leaves that many more fish for US. And the crabs are very happy.


(same with the sea lions...)

and then we eat the fat an happy crabs

Oh ya.

[Larry3215]

No one has answered my questions about local laws/rules so Im assuming no one has actually asked the questions in our area.

I have no idea who has the final say in this locally - I suspect that several different agencies would have some jurisdictional over lap in different areas. It may even come down to city laws in some cases. Anyway, I decided to start with WDFW and see what they have to say.

I just sent them this email to the fishing regs email address. Please ignore the stupid spelling errors!

Hello,

Can you tell me what are the legal methods that can be used to deter seals/sea loins from taking salmon and gear while recreational fishing in Puget Sound and ocean waters in Wa State and on the lower Columbia River?

Specifically – are fireworks and paint ball guns legal to use? If not, do you have a list of approved methods or can you tell me who to contact for this information?

Thanks,

Larry

If I can find an email address that seems appropriate for the Coast Guard, I will email them as well.

[Larry3215]

No answers yet from WDFW or the CG......

[Larry3215]

I heard back from WDFW. Basically they say that its up to NOAA - BUT - there may be local laws that prevent you from using some of the methods. They gave an example of fireworks being illegal in Pierce Co and other places.

In other words - its not up to them, go ask NOAA - BUT - be sure to check with any other law agency in the area that may want to put their hand in the pot..

They also sent me a PDF about a NOAA advisory committee meeting last Feb. That committee was looking into what methods are ok to use locally but they made no specific rules for anyone to follow. It sounded mostly like a bunch of waffling on whats ok to use on what species and where with nothing being decided for sure except that you can't kill anything or damage it permanently - maybe. They dont know whats ok to use either.

I've since emailed the local NOAA guy but he hasnt gotten back to me yet. Also no reply from the CG.

So, it sounds like pretty much anything goes as far as WDFW is concerned IF its ok with NOAA. But NOAA isnt sure whats OK or not OK. Plus there is the question of are you trying to deter some species on the ESA list or is there an ESA species in the area that MIGHT be affected.

I personally cant tell the difference between one type of seal and another. I also have no idea if there might be other ESA listed creatures around that could be considered "harmed" while you're harassing seals.

So, who knows what would happen if you got stopped by a sheriffs boat or a CG boat or a WDFW boat. They might all three have different ideas of whats ok and whats not ok. Most likely fireworks of any type will be NOT ok. Paintball guns and other options might or might not be ok depending on where you are and who stops you.

I think I will just leave the seals/sea lions alone and wish them bonn apatite when they eat my salmon.

If I hear back from NOAA or the CG I will post more.....

[Bodofish]

The Navy allowed the sailors to use the fire hose and paintball guns to get the Sea Lions off the decks. They pretty much have to follow every stupid rule in the book no matter what. If you wanted to play with the big boys, a guy would need one heck of a deck pump.

[Larry3215]

I got a reply from the Seattle NOAA Marine mammal guy. I asked him several questions in a series of emails. Here are his answers in order.

Hi Larry, Thank you for following up on this. I think the source of the uncertainty is that our (NOAA West Coast Region) documents are referenced to the Marine Mammal Protection Act (MMPA) which allows deterrence methods that do not cause serious injury or mortality to a marine mammal. So from the MMPA perspective many methods, when used in a manner that avoids injuring the animal, are allowable. However, the MMPA does not pre-empt State or local ordinances that are designed to further public safety etc. Regarding paint ball guns, I don't know of any local ordinances prohibiting them outright so long as they are used safely around people. Fireworks, on the other hand, are closely regulated under the jurisdiction of the State Fire Marshall. So, for example, you may not be able to purchase or use over the counter fireworks except during the approved seasons of the year (think 4th of July). I would check with the Fire Marshall's office to find out about restrictions on "celebratory" fireworks. In addition, the pyrotechnic devices typically used for wildlife damage control (agricultural pest control fireworks) are regulated by the Federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms (ATF) and some of the devices (seal control firecrackers, shell crackers) are deemed "high explosives" and require a user permit. You can look up the requirements for agricultural pest control devices (which include seal bombs) on the ATF website. I hope this helps.. bn

and

Hi Larry, The harbor seals and sea lions that you will encounter in Puget Sound are not listed under the ESA. The ESA listed marine mammal species' that you would most likely encounter in the Sound would be Southern Resident Killer Whales and humpback whales. You should not have much trouble identifying or avoiding those .. bn

Brent Norberg
Marine Mammal Coordinator
NOAA Fisheries West Coast Region
U.S. Department of Commerce
Office: 206-526-6550

So, there is the official word as near as I can come.

As much as I would like to try the paintball gun thing, I think I wills just leave the seals alone. I can just see the sheriffs boat racing towards a call about a guy with a machine gun in a boat off Pt Defiance.....

[Larry3215]

Ok, here is one seal/sea lion solution as tested in Astoria. Looks to me like no risk of harm to anyone

http://koin.com/2016/03/17/air-dancers- ... s-for-now/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[countryboy87]

No one has answered my questions about local laws/rules so Im assuming no one has actually asked the questions in our area.

I have no idea who has the final say in this locally - I suspect that several different agencies would have some jurisdictional over lap in different areas. It may even come down to city laws in some cases. Anyway, I decided to start with WDFW and see what they have to say.

I just sent them this email to the fishing regs email address. Please ignore the stupid spelling errors!

Hello,

Can you tell me what are the legal methods that can be used to deter seals/sea loins from taking salmon and gear while recreational fishing in Puget Sound and ocean waters in Wa State and on the lower Columbia River?

Specifically – are fireworks and paint ball guns legal to use? If not, do you have a list of approved methods or can you tell me who to contact for this information?

Thanks,

Larry

If I can find an email address that seems appropriate for the Coast Guard, I will email them as well.

So this might be of no use but my understanding of law goes something like this.. Federal makes federal.. State must adhere to federal law but may add laws .. tougher but never more lenient. County follows State city follows county and so on.. always the same as the level above but tougher laws are at discretion of officials.. i can look into this and see what i find because i am actually curious

[Bobber_Dogging_Gal]

Just to be on the safe side, I'd ask the game warden if you can keep an amputee.

Signed: Sealy No-Posture-Pedic *lol*

Yes, if it was legal to keep a salmon with a fin, then it's yours, you caught it, the seal only modified it.

[Larry3215]

Unfortunately, the seal is probably going to keep the part that proves it was a legal fish. No proof = ticket.