Carp or Northern Pike Minnow disposal - What is actually the best way to do it?

[Anglinarcher]

In the fishing reports recently, a thinly vialed threat was made by one of our good members, but also a land owner along a popular Eastern body of water, that the neighborhood was calling law enforcement when they found carp hunters leaving their dead carp.

In the past we have had discussions regarding the disposal if fish guts and bodies after we fillet them. Discussions were had about the F&W telling us that it was good to leave them in the water, but most concur that doing that at the campground or boat launch is NOT the thing to do. In the case of carp, allegations were made that this may fall under the "cannot waste fish or shellfish" clause, but most of us do not consider this a waste of carp or squawfish, now known as Northern Pike Minnow, also known as rough fish.

As I see it, we have a conflict of goals. One is the legal and wise elimination of carp and pike Minnow from our water, and the disposal of the biomass back into the system. The other goal is the prevent littering and the obvious smell of floating Pike Minnow or Carp.

So, if we are in a free and open society, I think it is time to have an open discussion on the following questions:

1) Is it ethical to kill and dispose of Carp and/or Pike Minnow (aka rough fish) back into the water?

2) What is the best way to dispose of dead rough fish?

3) If you dispose of the rough fish back into the water, what is the best method?

4) If you dispose of the rough fish in some other manner, what is it and why is it best?

This is the place to discuss this, not in the fishing reports, so lets have at it. I have ideas and comments, but I don't want to bloody the water with my opinion just quite yet.

[Amx]

They make great garden fertilizer. Place one fish in the groove next to each corn plant/stalk/corn seed.

[Amx]

Or cut the fish in half so the airbladder/body isn't a closed 'vessel' and so the internal decomposition gasses can't build up, so the carsass doesn't float.

[rjn cajun]

The few I`ve caught I just threw them up on shore away from the public for the animals and birds to eat. Same thing happens with salmon on the rivers. Let nature take it`s course.

[G-Man]

Great topic AA!

Being a raised the way I was, I go out of my way to make sure that I do not bring undue attention to myself and my fellow outdoorsmen. Trash gets picked up and packed out and the remains of any fish and wildlife bagged are discretely disposed of or left in placed where the general public will not wander across them. To the uneducated, leaving carcasses/remains to rot in the open appears disgusting, unhealty and implies a wasteful mentality. Most folks do not understand that a great many animals rely on scavenging to survive and is part of the natural order of things.

I still have a hard time with just dropping a dead fish in the water and leaving to there to float belly-up. Ever since Gisteppo mentioned that he uses pike minnows, aka squawfish, as crab bait I keep my catch and freeze for later use. Granted, I'm not catching a ton of these fish every time I go out, so it works rather nicely for me. Prior to using them for crab, crayfish or trout bait, I'd cut the head off and pop the air bladder so they would sink to the bottom of the lake or river I was fishing and get them out of sight. Similarly, I keep most of my fish remains in the freezer to use as bait or chum. What I can't use or no longer need goes into my clean, green recycling bin which in turn gets converted to compost and new soil.

As for large catches of rough fish, I would suggest disposing discretely by puncturing the air bladder to make sure it sinks to the bottom if disposing in water or transporting the fish to a remote section of the lake and leave them in an area where folks are not likely to find them. Also, buzzards, coyotes, bears, etc. are far more likely to find and eat these fish if left in places with minimal human traffic. It took quite some time for the idea to be accepted that river systems benefit greatly from carcasses left on the bank and in the water, its natures way of revitalizing an area. Consequently, the State has been planting fish carcasses along river banks that have been harvested from hatcheries for over a decade.

[the thumb]

i started this issue with my report. I am all for people enjoying the sport of carp fishing. I don't want to see what always happens and a few bad apples irritate someone or someones so bad they fight to restrict the particular sport. as to disposal: I agree most people don't probably have a big enough yard to bury them. The flip side of it is, if you're the one killing them, it is your problem. don't let them float because you don't want to deal with it. I agree cutting them open should prevent any floating. I also have heard that returning the nutrients to a body of water is good. maybe spreading the carcasses over a larger area of the lake would be better, so that they aren't all in the same area as where the hunting occurred. I have to admit I've killed my fair share of pikeminnows, (which i usually try to throw out when i see an eagle or osprey, they love em). Public dumpsters are probably not the answer. The less than veiled threats originated, because last weekend there was a boat with 3 guys hunting here by nine mile resort. one neighbor who was watching them pretty close thinks they probably killed 50 and let them float away (actually they sink and float up later). when confronted during the killing spree that what they were doing was illegal and just plain rude, they responded with we don't care. That attitude is what is getting our dander up. I personally don't want to see people restricted from having fun. there are enough darn rules in the world. maybe signs posted at boat launches on the lake educating people what happens when they don't take them or at least slice them open. most people are pretty good about it. it only takes a boat or two having a great day of hunting to start this problem. where i live it is a giant lily pad field, so the carp get stuck there. I'll keep checking the forum off and on to keep the discussion going. lets all just have fun and get along.

side note: looks like the carp spawn is over if anyone was curious. they are still in the lillys, just not jumping around like their heads are cut off.

[rjn cajun]

I totally agree it`s because of these fools our once public land and lakes are takin away from us. Same thing happens when people leave garbage and waste in the woods they close that area. It`s more common sense than anything and it`s to bad alot of people these day`s don`t have it.

[G-Man]

Something to keep in mind, people who carp hunt are doing the you and the State a favor. A great deal of time and money is spent every year on controlling the carp population and as a side benefit we have the tiger muskie program. Perhaps the folks that live along the lake can work something out with the hunters that is agreeable to both parties. As it reads, the regulations regarding the use of fish for things other than bait or human consumption, is open to interpretation. One could argue that the carp left in the water are not being wasted and in fact are enriching the waters in which they are decomposing. What does the State do with the pike minnows turned in for money on the Columbia? They get turned into fertilizer, so I guess that technically it is not a waste to use them as such.

You may not:
Intentionally waste fish or shellfish. This includes
mutilating or clipping fins and then returning to
the water any live fish (such as DOGFISH).

You many Not:
Use SALMON, HERRING, or HALIBUT for
anything other than human consumption or
fishing bait.

[the thumb]

I don't know the whole answer, the air just really stinks around here, especially on a nice hot day. Common sense needs to prevail. i don't drive through neighborhoods and throw fish carcasses next to their property. check in again tomorrow, time for a ball game in town tonight.

[returnofthefish]

I would be careful about using fish as fertilizer in the garden. Fish that come from certain bodies of water have pollutants in them such as mercury. Check page 30 in the reg book. The mercury in the fish is going into your garden. Just my 2 cents

[flyfisher31]

if i am in a area with not that many people or in a an area just fisherman i just stuck a fillet knife in them and throw them back and they sink a contrbute the sucker fish population. if in a populated area i use them for bait or keep them on a stringer till i leave then i throw them somewhere where noone will find them

[the thumb]

I appreciate the fact that here are quite a few fisherman ( or is it hunters) discussing the issue. it is big in our neighborhood. once the wind came up today, whew the stink came with it. I think sinking them does work, keep in mind they are pretty oily fish and when you live in a bay enclosed by weeds (Ilike me) they do ooze nasty. I had a floater next to the dock the other day and i thought there was a gasoline spill on the water till i saw the fish. there has been discussion about whether it is really illegal or not to put the fish back in the water. the answer from lenny (or len not sure which) at wdfw is that it is illegal. There is a rcw rule number. anybody wants it i'll get it from my neighbor. the fine is 271.00. it is just tiresome to pick up other peoples rudeness. I do appreciate the hunters taking them. it keeps our lake from having too many. so again lets all have fun and get along and not give a finger to the people you impact with an activity. i'm sure i've done something incosiderate also, none of us are perfect. good luck fishing.

[Anglinarcher]

Thumb, can you provide the code that prohibits placing the dead carp in the water? I have my doubts.

I really appreciate the thoughtful answers to the question. Let's keep it up.

I want to caution just poking them with a fillet knife. The hole can close up and the fish still float up. Also, just poking the air bladder is not enough; the gasses fill into the closed body and they can float. That is the reason I hack them in two with my machete, fast, one whack, sink like a rock.

[Anonymous]

Carp I dont kill unless its a female. I like the eggs for caviar.Pike-Minnows get killed humanely then sliced up a bit and put back in the lake to feed and attract crayfish.It may feed a eagle or hawk.Lots of critters will feed off a carcass.I do cut the lung also so it cant inflate but even if it floats up ,Who cares? some critter or bird will make a meal.Pike minnows are pretty oily for a fresh water fish thus it makes good Crayfish or Crab bait.Its too bad people are not educated to know the harm and damage Pike- Minnows do.They just look at it as a poor dead fish. That same mentality is what wiped out a large natural run of Steelhead in the Lk Wa. system.Sorry to disagree with some of you.I used to hear about the poor hungry sea lions just wanting fish to eat.Sea lions are another issue much like the topic here. What do we do with them?

[gian]

Last time I caught pike I was fortunate enough to be on a river with coyotes near by. I tossed them on the shore, motored up stream, and when I came back they were gone. I would never toss them in a populated area though, I wouldn't want the smell of dead fish around my house or campground either.

circle of life right?

[eightballsaul]

So what does everyone do with all the carcasses from the fish that we keep to eat. Any fish that we catch and keep as food has a carcass left over. I clean my fish at home after the trip. I throw the carcasses away. They go to the landfill and decompose. I don't have a garden to put them in. I don't throw them back into the water. It is the same issue no matter what species of fish we catch. I don't think there is any right answer for this. I could say to Thumb that if you don't like the smell get out of the kitchen, but that wouldn't be right either. There are going to be jack asses no matter what. These people don't care and will never care and we can't make them care. So what do we do? We deal with it the best that we can. If it means that we have to clean up after someone else then so be it. It is the responsibile thing to do and it makes us better people and the things that we do better. If we have the opportunity to report these people, then we do it. Post your own signs. There is no law agaist that. Just act responsilbly and don't lower yourself to a Jackass level. It is to bad that everyone can't do that.

[G-Man]

Saul,

If you have clean green service, you can put the remains in with the rest of your yard clippings and food scraps. If you clean at the river, lake, ocean the remains will sink as long as the body cavity and air bladder are slit open. Most of the birds in our area are pretty savvy when it comes to scoring an easy meal. Most of the remains of the fish I clean in the field are picked up by seagulls before they have a chance to sink. If you crab, use the remains as bait. As a last resort, put them in a bag, freeze them and place in the trash collection morning. This way you will avoid the stink and if you are in an area with bears and raccoons, they are not likely to find them prior to pick-up.

[Kfisherman]

Most people where I fish/hunt for carp just let them float. Some people do stab the fish to burst the air bladder. It's not really a concern here as there are a ton of coyotes. Either way it's a good thing. Just wish I could get out more. I only live 15min from prime hunting grounds.

[racfish]

I was out Sunday on Lk Wa and caught 2 pike minnows. Large ones at that.I discretely sliced it open and dropped them back in. They sank to the bottom and that was it. I caught 2 lil perch and threw them back.It was very cold on Sunday for fishing.

[Anglinarcher]

On a side note, Grass Carp are not legal to kill. We are talking common carp, large scale carp, etc., etc., but NOT Grass Carp. Washington has placed Grass Carp in specific areas to reduce invasive weeds. I believe they are sterile, but I'm not sure (hope they are). I hope that this discussion will continue regarding disposal. I PM'd the thumb about the code, but as of this minute he has not responded.

Eightballsaul, when I have fish remains from normal fishing, it may way a few pounds at best. I don't want them stinking up the garbage can, so I bag them and freeze them, taking them out to the trash can the day before pick-up. This works pretty well for me, but it won't work for a half dozen to a couple dozen 10 pound carp or a dozen 2 pound Pike minnows. Trust me, clean green is not a bad idea, but unless it will be picked up the next day you had better freeze it as well. In Spokane, I would not get caught putting carp into the clean green either, they have specific rules and I'll bet that raw meat is not allowed.

I was wondering, what does the State do when they kill them out of a lake? Oh ya, they leave them to float. Still, not a polite thing to do in a public area IMHO.