Puget Sound early winter hatchery steelhead

[4steelhead]

I'm not looking forward to driving 3 hours to fish, but I will. I don't know who is right and who is wrong. Hope they get this all straightened out and improved.

[Steelheadin360]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/apr0114c/

I say they keep the 2 fish regulation until they get their egg take, then increase the limit on the hatchery fish. The impact would be much reduced. The close the river when hatchery fish are still returning to protect the natives, instead of allowing us to continue to harvest, then B**** when the brats go do the deed with natives. This has been going on for DECADES and now they want to protect their wild/hatchery fish. Woooo I am fired up....

[natetreat]

Nice to know that if you file suit against WDFW they roll over a play dead.

WFC will win even if they lose, because they're going to drag this out all year. There will be no spring plants, no fish returning 2015. And guess what? They're going to sue to stop hatchery plants in the Big C and Grays Harbor tribs too. Steelheading in washington is more depressing that reality TV.

[MarkFromSea]

http://wdfw.wa.gov/news/apr0114c/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
This is crazy, WDFW getting it from all sides, WDFW wants to release the juvenile, affects the 2016-17 return. How about a sportsman group sue the people holding up the release, get the natives to join in... get those hatch numbers up, the nates are gone, grow fish!

[bassplayer17]

For sale steelhead gear cheap... Possible trade for bluegill gear....

[4steelhead]

http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/contact-us" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Posted is a link to thank them for the hard work they've done to improve stream habitat. Don't forget to voice your concerns for the future of our passion, that is winter steelheading. And remind them of the steps already taken in the last few years to protect wild fish. I think if they can fit hatchery fish into their plans for the future, we will all be more successful.

[Bodofish]

http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/contact-us
Posted is a link to thank them for the hard work they've done to improve stream habitat. Don't forget to voice your concerns for the future of our passion, that is winter steelheading. And remind them of the steps already taken in the last few years to protect wild fish. I think if they can fit hatchery fish into their plans for the future, we will all be more successful.

And don't forget to thank them for helping us get rid of those pesky hatchery fish too........

[gfakkema]

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[4steelhead]

I thought the whole idea of using Chambers Creek was to give a harvestable steelhead opportunity before the wild stock arrives. Thus lessening bycatch mortality. WFC complains that hatchery origin fish compete with wild fish for food and habitat, which has nothing to do with the Chambers Creek specifically, but the amount of fish in the river.

[gfakkema]

...

[obryan214]

crazy idea. how about replanting some of these chambers creek fish back in chambers creek where a steelhead hasn't been since 2006?

[MarkFromSea]

http://wildfishconservancy.org/about/pr ... lating-esa

Sounds to me like WFC is only against the chambers stock and not hatchery fish altogether. JMO.

From what I read, they are against all hatcheries. They make it harder and more expensive for the state to run hatcheries.
They do some good in other areas surrounding habitat by being a thorn in the side of lawmakers and agencies that regulate land use, ect, ect.
http://wildfishconservancy.org/what-we-do" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

[gfakkema]

...

[Bodofish]

Mark, direct quote from the page you linked...

"Through science, education, and advocacy, Wild Fish Conservancy promotes technically and socially responsible habitat, fisheries, and hatchery management to better sustain the region’s wild-fish heritage."

Also...

"Through the Wild Salmon Recovery Initiative, Wild Fish Conservancy is influencing federal, state, and local agencies to fully implement and comply with the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Water Act, and other local, state, and federal statutes. Wild Fish Conservancy is making fisheries management more transparent, strengthening land-use and water-quality regulations, and raising the bar for acceptable hatchery management."

Again, I am not siding with WFC. They make it sound like they aren't against the hatcheries, just the way in which they are being managed. They more than likely have alterior motives in all this, but from what I have seen so far, it does not seem like they are trying to completely do away with hatcheries all together. Now... all of these quotes come directly from the WFC and I am going to assume that they are %100 biased. If someone can point me in the direction of any information that shows and/or proves that the WFC is trying to destroy (not alter) the hatchery program in washington (or elsewhere), please let me/us know.

This means nothing to me but smoke up my...... More gobbledy gook to make you feel good while they pursue their agenda and screw us out of lots of hatchery fish that we could be catching.

Sorry but that's all I see.

[Norm]

bunch of darn hippies tryin to save the world

[4steelhead]

A direct quote from WFC website, About Us page:" Wild Fish Conservancy seeks to improve conditions for all of the Northwest’s wild fish...."
And from their complaint on hatchery impact:" hatchery-origin steelhead adversely affect wild steelhead by causing negative genetic effects, attracting predators, competing for food and habitat, and also when hatchery steelhead prey on wild salmon and steelhead.  In addition, hatchery facilities block habitat and degrade water quality, adversely affecting wild fish."
They are starting with Puget Sound hatchery because WDFW didnt dot their I's and cross their T's, opening them up to a law suit.

[4steelhead]

bunch of darn hippies tryin to save the world

Haha

[Bodofish]

Again only relying on studies (if any were used) to formulate their policy. I find it very interesting that none of these "conservation groups", bent on hatchery removal are interested in any of the studies done by OR, the ones that show Steelhead breed with bows, and cuts and brats and that the bottom line of those studies is, the genetics don't determine which fish go out to sea and which fish stay local in any given system. Genetically, Bows and Steelhead are indistinguishable so at this point their interbreeding is and has been a none issue. Next toss in the a bunch of brats for say 30 years or longer, not all of them are caught and returned to the hatchery, nature always finds a way. They are now indistinguishable from the previous two gene pools. So what do we have in the end? Steelhead and Rainbows, the only difference being one goes out to sea and the other stays home. What does a Brat turn into when it spawns and goes back out to sea? A big Steelhead, just like the "Natives". What do the smolt of the Brats and Bows or Brats and Nate's become? They become Steelhead and Bows, just like the first iteration of this Manage A Trois. And as an added touch, they're all Nates too. This has been happening for over thirty years. You can't fix something that nature does, even if it's not broke. I believe the colloquialism is, Closing the gate after the cows have gotten out. Too little too late. And so on and so forth. The State wants to get out of the hatchery business, the Eco groups think this will get us back to Eden. Regardless of their petty actions against each other, both after the same thing, no hatcheries. Very missguided. The reason the hatcheries were first established was because the runs were not producing enough fish for the sportspersons and commercial fishers to satiate their need. All day long and all year for that matter, there is no way you get more fish by putting less into the system. That's just physically impossible, you can never get more than a 100% return. The way you get more fish back is by polluting less and making sure we haven't devastated the various food supplies the fish eat during their life cycle. Don't fish for herring so the Japanese and Koreans can serve the roe during the holidays. Don't allow the cows to hang out in the rivers and do what they do, adding huge amounts of nitrogen to the water, growing the algae and raising the temp and killing the bugs. So I guess the bottom line is we've been interbreeding all our Steelhead for years, no going back, so what we should be doing is fixing the habitat, not polluting it and making sure the fish have plenty to eat through out their life cycle. In the end, we'd have lots of fish in the systems, no ones looses their job at the hatcheries and we all get to go fishing and eat Steelhead! Yummmmmmm, win, win!

Steps off soap box.....

[MarkFromSea]

Mark, direct quote from the page you linked...

"Through science, education, and advocacy, Wild Fish Conservancy promotes technically and socially responsible habitat, fisheries, and hatchery management to better sustain the region’s wild-fish heritage."

Also...

"Through the Wild Salmon Recovery Initiative, Wild Fish Conservancy is influencing federal, state, and local agencies to fully implement and comply with the Endangered Species Act, the Clean Water Act, and other local, state, and federal statutes. Wild Fish Conservancy is making fisheries management more transparent, strengthening land-use and water-quality regulations, and raising the bar for acceptable hatchery management."

Again, I am not siding with WFC. They make it sound like they aren't against the hatcheries, just the way in which they are being managed. They more than likely have alterior motives in all this, but from what I have seen so far, it does not seem like they are trying to completely do away with hatcheries all together. Now... all of these quotes come directly from the WFC and I am going to assume that they are %100 biased. If someone can point me in the direction of any information that shows and/or proves that the WFC is trying to destroy (not alter) the hatchery program in washington (or elsewhere), please let me/us know.

I had a long response written, walakes logged me off, the text is gone. In summary: spotted owl.... if you don't know what that did to the state, you won't understand. WFC seeks to destroy all hatcheries.... period....

[4steelhead]

If the WDFW had it's required permit from the National Marine Fishery Sevice, there wouldn't be a law suit. They have been rquired to have this permit for the last 7 years. What is the hold up? What is the status of the permit? They have about 6 weeks to get it or the tax payers loose millions of dollars worth of smolts, fisherman loose at least a season of local steelheading, the WDFW may loose some license fees and jobs, the industry looses sales. We all loose except for WFC who gets their name in the paper.